Mark my words. These are troubled people doing bad things cloaked under the guise of faith. We will not be a true godly nation under these folks. Just look at the guy they've chosen to worship. This is darkness pretending to be light. Anyone can call themselves "Christian." Some of the best and worst among us do.
Robert Morris, the head of Gateway Church, one of the largest mega churches was called out for molesting a 12 year old, when he was 20, and that "activity" continued for some years. He, of course, has been forgiven by his flock and oh yes, the Lord......yea him. Donald Trump called Morris HIS spiritual advisor. Seems fitting somehow.
I believe in redemption but at the same time would be sure to keep any young girls and young women far away from him in this life. HE can settle up with the Lord on the next plain.
These people are incredibly dangerous and not only is their hold on our politicians very worrisome, but those that ignore them and don't think they matter do so at their own and OUR peril.
Anyone who believes he or she gets a pass into heaven by asking forgiveness after they’ve harmed others, is a dangerous human being.
Rape? Pederasty?
Murder? Lying to bring harm to someone they know is innocent? Deciding bumpstocks do not convert a semi-automatic weapon into a virtual machine gun (the most depraved indifference to date in modern times made by something as absurd as the “Supreme” Court?)(Bite me Alito you’re going to hell with brunhilda there don’t bother asking for help imo). Choosing profits over human life?
I’ve read excerpts and especially the quote about recognizing a duck. So much great respect for her. It feels hopeless sometimes. It’s close to how I felt when Sandy Hook happened, and then Uvalde.
Absolutely Pamela. Think Spanish Inquisition. Or the English burning, hanging, torturing the people for not being Catholic, and then applying the same methods of persuasion in the other direction if they weren’t Protestant. Even God and Jesus leave it up to each of us to decide.
Thank you, Adam! As a Christian, I agree with you and I am ALARMED with the Christian Nationalism movement! In the first sentence of our constitution, the first claim is to “insure domestic Tranquility”. I do not see this as a guiding principle of the Christian Nationalism movement! Jesus taught us to Love God, and Love our neighbor (as we do ourselves). Jesus also claimed His kingdom was not of this earth! The Nationalists have a motive for power over others! I see nothing of Jesus in that movement. As a follower of Jesus, my citizenship is not of this earth. However, as an equal citizen of the USA, I am able to express the Love of Jesus for ALL persons! May we all have equal rights regardless of our faith under the Constitution! Love your neighbor!
As an intentional follower of Jesus Christ it infuriates me to no end that this movement is weaponizing the GOSPEL! They follow a distorted view of the GOSPEL. The Bible is clear that GOD gives us free will as he seeks genuine worship from his followers. We absolutely need separation of church and state! I could go on a rant so I will stop here. But I wish the MAGA movement would look up Micah 6:8 and allow it to move them in the right direction.
Yes. Free Will is the key. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE has the total wisdom of Jesus or God. Therefore it follows that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE is qualified to determine or control how anyone else lives their lives. Jesus teaches "Judge not, that you will not be judged, for with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged and the measure you give will be the measure you get". (Matthew 7:1-2) Throughout American history we have been taught about the separation of Church and State. Today's Christian Nationalists publicly reject that idea because they want to BE the State in order to CONTROL everyone's lives -which is the exact opposite of what Jesus teaches. The best we mortals can do is to talk with each other and negotiate to reach mutually acceptable compromises. It is the job of the Church (religion) to teach followers how to live their own lives while respecting the rights of others. It is the job of the State to manage the discussions and negotiations that result in compromises and laws that are accepted by the masses. Church and State MUST BE KEPT SEPARATE.
I don't mean to be confrontation but as a non-Christian, I cannot figure out how Christian's quote nice things from the bible (in your case, the Old Testament) when the same book says things like - Leviticus 24:16 "Whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death"
If I was reading a self-help book that had some good advice, but then other parts of the book said I should kill people for saying things I didn't like, doesn't that negate the entire book?
I agree with you Dan. The Old Testament is riddled with contradiction. I have to remind myself whenever I read the Bible that it was actually written -- and rewritten -- by men. Those men who claimed to be inspired by God were very human, and had all the faults and prejudices of men -- especially when it came to women.
The New Testament is not much better. In any event, I don't get the appeal people have with ancient words written by people who didn't know where the sun went at night. To each their own, I guess.
Dan, good question. I have wrestled with these contradictions myself. So, I live my Christian life with simple basics; like, right vs wrong, love vs. hate =basically child -like principles. Not intelligent but it works for me!! Hope this makes sense!
Cindy, it makes sense. That said, some Christian’s think we have “right” and “love” because of Christianity. Clearly, they’ve skipped a lot of the Bible and haven’t read their religious history.
The fact is we don’t know how we got here and we’ll most likely never know (I think science has the best chance of figuring it out) but Christianity is certainly not the source of morality and all things “good” in the world.
Very true, Dan. I think that's why we're all blessedly different and can come to our own beliefs through various experiences & knowledge!. I appreciate conversing with you!!
The Old Testament gives us God’s Justice and Punishment under His Law! Under God’s Law all sin must be punished. Since all of us sin, all will be punished. However, under the New Testament, Jesus came to take on our sin and become the sin offering in our place. This is the Good News, the Gospel of Jesus Christ! All we must do is accept that offering from God! Jesus is God! The Gospel of John and the Book of Romans explain all of this. The Old is passed away, behold the New has come!
All written over many years by people who didn't even know Jesus. Not to mention the writers had a fraction of the intellect and knowledge we have today.
Additionally, Christian's "God" is one of thousands of Gods created by man. Why is yours the right one? Do Muslims have it wrong? Do Hindu's have it wrong?
To each their own but it's ancient nonsense to me and a growing number of people.
Yes, it’s what we call inspiration (God Breathed) Into men that recorded His messages. I don’t have all the answers, it requires faith. Everyone has faith (trust) in many things. We trust the sun will rise tomorrow! Read the Bible with an open mind for understanding.
I have the Old and New Testament on my Kindle and read it at times but when it says that people who speak 'badly about God' (see below) should be put to death, it's hard to take seriously. Yes, I have "faith" but it's in scientifically minded people who have given mankind more benefits than all the religions put together.
Leviticus 24:16 "Whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death"
The Old Testament also shows us God’s plan for sending a Messiah (Jesus) to redeem his people (all people) to save them from God’s judgment for sin. So, the Old Testament shows us God’s Judgment and Punishment for sin, but also His plan for redemption for all who trust in Him, saved by faith. This is explained in the Book of Hebrews, New Testament.
These people are way out there. This is not garden variety Christianity. It's fringe orthodoxy and probably heresy. We've got to make sure these zealots don't turn us into a Christian version of Saudi Arabia, because they're making it very plain that's their intent.
I like your definition of this ideology as heretical. Maybe that’s where our religious leaders should go to help us fight against Christian Nationalism
I was alarmed in 2016 and worked hard in my small platform to tell people about what Trump would do to this country. I 10x more alarmed now. He completely failed on quick COVID19 response that caused avoidable economic turmoil and avoidable deaths, he abandoned our boots on the ground, The Kurds, who were the gatekeepers of ISIS, and he is more closely aligned with the dictators then our true allies, and all the while using Christ's name. It is the world's most dangerous cult and we have to beat it. Thank you, Adam for your fight to do the right thing. I wish there were more like you out there.
Really scary stuff! I’ve downloaded Project 2025 but haven’t started reading it yet, so hoping to learn more. I fear many trumpers are going to vote emotionally without understanding anything of substance about his intentions. The other worry is that it’s obvious that even if trump were to pass away, withdraw, or otherwise disappear it’s too late for America. The MAGA “deep state” is running things now.
Anne, I can do a very quick summary for you: It eliminates any constraints on public safety like the EPA in order to allow corporations to maximize profits and pollution and it brings major Departments like Justice under the President and his politically appointed demi-gods, thus eliminating the career civil service except the lowest level functionaries needed to carry out the Executive (Polituburo's) orders. If you decide to tackle the whole thing, I certainly don't want to discourage you, but suggest you have several vomit bags handy. :)
I completely agree, Adam. My own life has been a strange, somewhat circular journey. Baptized Roman Catholic, I left that church before high school graduation after nearly entering the priesthood. Being of a scholarly bent, I had read voraciously in theology and church history, and there was just too much I found wrong and inconsistent in that church to remain. Fundamentalist Protestantism was worse, so I abandoned religion altogether for a half century-plus of at times rather outspoken and sarcastic atheism.
Yet I kept reading, and searching. Surrounded by Jewish friends at UCLA and Harvard Law School, I nearly converted to Judaism then. I joined what was then an overwhelmingly Jewish law firm after graduation, where I spent my entire legal career. I did not convert, but remain strongly philo-Semitic and a supporter of Israel. I also delved deeply into Buddhism during my working years, drawn very strongly to its general ethos, absence of a God, and focus on personal responsibility in a suffering world. I felt compelled to explore other traditions as well, from reading the Bhagavad Gita and the Muhabarata to reading four different versions of the Quran and a number of works expanding on the hadeeths of Muhammad.
At age 70, I had a profound, inexplicable personal calling to the Greek Orthodox Church, the original Christian church and the one I believe to be the truest form of Christianity. That the call came unbidden, indeed unwanted, to an old white male of Southern ancestry on both sides with not a drop of Greek blood, made it all the more compelling. It has given my life purpose, meaning, explanation and joy.
But here’s the thing. Orthodoxy in this country emphasizes free will above all. It views coerced “faith” as an oxymoron. One hears God’s call or not, and accepts it or not. There is no conversion by the sword, unlike in Islam and the more virulent strains of Christianity, from conservatives Roman Catholicism to the Biblical literalists of Protestantism to the “Christian” nationalists you address. Christ would not recognize these people who sully His name, as I believe they will learn to their eternal sorrow on Judgment Day. Their teachings are diametrically opposed to the Gospel. Among the many things that have drawn me to Orthodoxy, prominent among them is our recognition that there is much we cannot know about God, a mystery and ambiguity we embrace. Here, we accept the separation of church and state, to the degree that our priests not only do not preach politics from our pulpits, but cannot even vote. We accept science (the current head of our church addressed the perils of climate change in his very first encyclical after taking office). We view sin as an illness, not a crime, and as something our priests cannot absolve in confession, contrary to Roman Catholicism, but can only offer as much forgiveness as God allows. In the end, we accept, and it is challenging but also hopeful, that we will be judged on the entirety of our lives, not one great sin or many, not one great act of charity or love, or many. We face life knowing every day is a test, challenging us to become more like Christ, our objective being something we call theosis, becoming as much like Him as possible. We certainly have things we define as sin, and sacraments very like those of Roman Catholicism. But we have no Pope, our doctrines coming via councils of bishops which are infrequent, relying overwhelmingly on the first seven Ecumenical Councils of Christianity. Importantly, as follows from the foregoing, we do not seek to force our views, beliefs or creed generally on anyone. We do not as a church support anti-abortion legislation, or oppose legislation guaranteeing the rights of LGBTQ+ people. Because the loving Christ in whom we believe is not of this world and has no secular agenda. His commands, and our faith, as our pastor recently told our Sunday school students when he addressed them during our Divine Liturgy, can be summed up in five words: love God and love people. That means all people, whatever their beliefs.
I write at length here because it matters so much for our country, the world, each of us. There is nothing Christian in “Christian” nationalism. There is nothing American in it either. It is a misbegotten grotesque species of fascism, intent on power and control by a minority, nothing more or less. It needs to be called out relentlessly for the hypocrisy it is,and for its agenda of bigotry, hatred and cruelty. It is perhaps the chief reason why a blue wave in November, at all levels, is vital for everyone, including the deluded cultists of tfg, who at root “know not what they do”.
Your voice is a powerful and necessary one, Adam. But the rest of us must echo you, to the extent of our capabilities and beyond, and especially in swing states because of the power and impact of the POTUS. We win in November, or we may never get the chance again at any ballot box. As the day approaches, and the drumbeats grow louder, I am more convinced of that than ever. We cannot lose, for ourselves, our families, our country, indeed the world. It truly is that stark.
Thank you for post Roy. I totally support what you have said about Jesus and the Kingdom of God. Only The Almighty knows the exact circumstance of a person’s life. Jesus spoke to the sinners, the poor, the homeless and healed the sick. Exactly the opposite of what MAGA proposes. Jesus protected women who were scorned and threatened with stoning. His “favorite” disciple was Mary. But men decided what went into the canonical Bible. Think about that and then Project 2025.
God Hates Liars.
What does Donald Trump do consistently? Lie
What have the MAGA Republicans been doing? Lying
What has FOX been doing?
Lying
It is Scripturally inconsistent that God would back a movement based on lies.
Christians are defined by our beliefs and those beliefs must be made manifest.
Jesus Christ said “you cannot follow ME you suffer like ME”
To those who more has been given more is expected
MAGA wants to multiply the burden on the poor to lighten the load on the rich.
That’s the philosophy of darkness.
MAGA and Project 2025 are heresy and must be defeated
WOW! Not only did I learn about the Greek Orthodox Church, but I also found that the teachings it provides are much more in line with my own beliefs. Well written and thank you for the education!
Wow….thank you Roy…..I too was raised in the Catholic Church and even as a young kid disagreed with many teachings…I have been looking for a place to fit in all the rest of my life and oddly if I step into a Catholic Church it makes me cry….I found my spirituality in my church as a kid but I never felt it or found it there again….I’ve often wondered what the Greek Orthodox Church would be like …if they would hold the key to my spiritual self….at 72 I’m still looking.
These Christian Nationalists definitely made me sit up and take notice because I felt all the fear, anger and hatred just flowing off of them….their embrace of the Old Testament said it all….where God smithed anyone who disobeyed or disagreed with the teachings of that time period….that’s what they want for all of us because they want CONTROL over everything we do or say ….who in that current group would any of us want to emulate, to follow, to bow too?
Many of those CN’s are also Q Anon and believed Donald was “Q” for God’s sake and they still follow “him” not even knowing who or what Q is!
These are not people any of us should be following….except for keeping close tabs on them so we can round them up later and open up psych wards …. just for them.
"I remain devoted to the Christian faith, but I believe our Constitution, as written, must be the law of the land. If you agree, you should be alarmed."
You aren't alone in being "alarmed", Adam. I know many that think like we do, but are literally afraid to speak out for fear of being thrown out of their church. That is not Christianity, it is the culture of a deranged cult. Sad in so many ways...
Wonder how many souls have been lost since fundamentalists sold out Christianity? Guess the Great Commission is absolutely meaningless to most now, politics has replaced it. Waiting for them to demand removing the "tired and poor" plaque from the Statue of Liberty...
Barry Goldwater was able to foresee this way before our time. Wishing the GOP had listened....
"Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed." ...from 1964 GOP Convection (San Francisco) Acceptance Speech
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
Goldwater was Spot On!! The GOP imploded for being too ignorant and arrogant to heed this ominous warning...
I am not afraid of being tossed from the church (maybe I should be) but I am very afraid to bring it up amongst some family members for fear of causing irreconcilable differences. It breaks my heart but I believe I am seeing the facts for what they are. I’m not one to always want to be right. I can and have admitted wrong. To echo another’s comment; our religious leaders need to speak up about all of this.
"To echo another’s comment; our religious leaders need to speak up about all of this."
Amen to that Theresa! If pastors were to at least to tell their flocks to think instead of blindly follow "any" politician, church attendance would rise and tensions within the churches would dissipate.
I know a preacher that retired early over this Also,. have a cousin who is a pastor in a red state having major issues with politics within his church. One of my relatives told him she was praying for him and he broke down for a minute. Maybe the members need to vector the leaders back on course since they don't seem to feel the have the backing of the congregations...
Looks like evil can flourish in religion when good people refuse to address certain issues. Silence isn't golden here at sll...
What's the quality of their Christian faith? I don't think lying is a valuable Christian quality. How about a faith that doesn't condone lying, and hording power? An American Christian Taliban won't work for me, and I would feel really bad for the children.
There is no quality in their faith. They have sided with evil to get their desires. In essence a friend of the devil is a friend of theirs. I'm not a christian and never will be as their hypocrisy has been a constant in my 64 years on Earth. The only rule we need to live by is, as my Gramma always said, "The Golden Rule". I subscribe to that one ideal and do my dambest to follow it, maybe not always successful, but it is paramount I do so. I believe it would cure the world of many problems. I have no problem with people believing as they see fit. I do have issues with pushing it on to others.
as an aside......
Appx. 5 million children under 5 died on Earth in 2022. What God wants God gets.
My turn as a hypocrite. If I offend anyone, think it over.
The priest said, "God wants goodness, God wants light
God wants mayhem, God wants a clean fight"
What God wants, God gets
God wants sedition, God wants sex
God wants freedom, God wants semtex
What God wants, God gets
God wants voodoo, God wants shrines
God wants law, God wants organized crime
God wants crusade, God wants jihad
God wants good, God wants bad
********************
God wants gigolos
God wants giraffes
God wants politics
God wants a good laugh
What God wants, God gets, God help us all
Excerpt of What God Wants Parts 1 & 2 - Roger Waters
I'm so glad I'm 70 years old. If these people come to power, I won't have to live in this country too much longer. I just don't know where to move for my last years!
Although, at 71 and in good health, I plan to live to be 100 or more (God Willing) so I am heavily invested in defeating Trump and MAGA at the ballot box! I'd like to enjoy the next 30 years 😜.
John, I so agree. I feel I have lived too long. This potential for my Country being converted to a Dictatorship, is unthinkable. Am exploring where I might relocate, for my end years, if we loose Democracy.
Most countries of this world where you might want to live have extradition treaties with the United States. If Trump wins and you are wealthy enough, you might want to live outside the U.S. If Trump’s retribution seeks to find and punish you/your loved ones, where will you go and what will you do? To avoid harm and to protect your life and ability to provide ongoing food and shelter?💙🇺🇸
I hear you. We’ll see what happens if Trump gets in. Let’s hope this won’t happen although knowing the way Trump thinks he is doing whatever he can now to make sure this happens. It does have me worried!!
John, when you find out please let me know!! I've been thinking the same as you! First I'm praying Adam and his family "gets out of Dodge" and we can follow them to a land of sanity! I still have Faith but I believe in a back-up plan!
Very alarmed! Speaking as a Christian who wishes to keep church and state separate; I believe the “Christian right” are operating from fear. Fear of being outnumbered, fear of an inclusive country. I want government out of our bodies. I suppose I shouldn’t be but I continue to be shocked that this looming possibility is a real threat. A democracy to me is something that can evolve and improve over time and considers all its citizens. Invasion of the body snatchers comes to mind when I think of the growing number of folks following Mr. Trump and his cronies. I will continue to pray for all to have the realization democracy is at steak and that I can muster the courage to speak out without becoming physically sick and losing my shit over it all. I admit I have trouble with the latter. Keep the faith one and all.
Mark my words. These are troubled people doing bad things cloaked under the guise of faith. We will not be a true godly nation under these folks. Just look at the guy they've chosen to worship. This is darkness pretending to be light. Anyone can call themselves "Christian." Some of the best and worst among us do.
Robert Morris, the head of Gateway Church, one of the largest mega churches was called out for molesting a 12 year old, when he was 20, and that "activity" continued for some years. He, of course, has been forgiven by his flock and oh yes, the Lord......yea him. Donald Trump called Morris HIS spiritual advisor. Seems fitting somehow.
I believe in redemption but at the same time would be sure to keep any young girls and young women far away from him in this life. HE can settle up with the Lord on the next plain.
These people are incredibly dangerous and not only is their hold on our politicians very worrisome, but those that ignore them and don't think they matter do so at their own and OUR peril.
Anyone who believes he or she gets a pass into heaven by asking forgiveness after they’ve harmed others, is a dangerous human being.
Rape? Pederasty?
Murder? Lying to bring harm to someone they know is innocent? Deciding bumpstocks do not convert a semi-automatic weapon into a virtual machine gun (the most depraved indifference to date in modern times made by something as absurd as the “Supreme” Court?)(Bite me Alito you’re going to hell with brunhilda there don’t bother asking for help imo). Choosing profits over human life?
Nope
Great Patris. Did you get a chance to read Justice Sonja’s rebuttal? Check it out.
I’ve read excerpts and especially the quote about recognizing a duck. So much great respect for her. It feels hopeless sometimes. It’s close to how I felt when Sandy Hook happened, and then Uvalde.
How can they be so depraved is the question.
Absolutely Pamela. Think Spanish Inquisition. Or the English burning, hanging, torturing the people for not being Catholic, and then applying the same methods of persuasion in the other direction if they weren’t Protestant. Even God and Jesus leave it up to each of us to decide.
great role models they are...NOT!
Exactly …..
Wisely said Elizabeth.
Hear hear Elizabeth! Exactly right!
This movement was called out years ago as the "American Taliban".
So true
Thank you, Adam! As a Christian, I agree with you and I am ALARMED with the Christian Nationalism movement! In the first sentence of our constitution, the first claim is to “insure domestic Tranquility”. I do not see this as a guiding principle of the Christian Nationalism movement! Jesus taught us to Love God, and Love our neighbor (as we do ourselves). Jesus also claimed His kingdom was not of this earth! The Nationalists have a motive for power over others! I see nothing of Jesus in that movement. As a follower of Jesus, my citizenship is not of this earth. However, as an equal citizen of the USA, I am able to express the Love of Jesus for ALL persons! May we all have equal rights regardless of our faith under the Constitution! Love your neighbor!
As an intentional follower of Jesus Christ it infuriates me to no end that this movement is weaponizing the GOSPEL! They follow a distorted view of the GOSPEL. The Bible is clear that GOD gives us free will as he seeks genuine worship from his followers. We absolutely need separation of church and state! I could go on a rant so I will stop here. But I wish the MAGA movement would look up Micah 6:8 and allow it to move them in the right direction.
Yes. Free Will is the key. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE has the total wisdom of Jesus or God. Therefore it follows that ABSOLUTELY NO ONE is qualified to determine or control how anyone else lives their lives. Jesus teaches "Judge not, that you will not be judged, for with the judgement you pronounce you will be judged and the measure you give will be the measure you get". (Matthew 7:1-2) Throughout American history we have been taught about the separation of Church and State. Today's Christian Nationalists publicly reject that idea because they want to BE the State in order to CONTROL everyone's lives -which is the exact opposite of what Jesus teaches. The best we mortals can do is to talk with each other and negotiate to reach mutually acceptable compromises. It is the job of the Church (religion) to teach followers how to live their own lives while respecting the rights of others. It is the job of the State to manage the discussions and negotiations that result in compromises and laws that are accepted by the masses. Church and State MUST BE KEPT SEPARATE.
Amen!!!!
Thank you Richard…..for speaking the much needed truth!
Micha 6:8 is my favorite Bible quote. It also is in the Torah and the Koran.
It states simply and clearly all that God requires of us:
Act justly.
Love mercy/charity.
Walk in humility with YOUR God.
Paula,
I don't mean to be confrontation but as a non-Christian, I cannot figure out how Christian's quote nice things from the bible (in your case, the Old Testament) when the same book says things like - Leviticus 24:16 "Whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death"
If I was reading a self-help book that had some good advice, but then other parts of the book said I should kill people for saying things I didn't like, doesn't that negate the entire book?
I agree with you Dan. The Old Testament is riddled with contradiction. I have to remind myself whenever I read the Bible that it was actually written -- and rewritten -- by men. Those men who claimed to be inspired by God were very human, and had all the faults and prejudices of men -- especially when it came to women.
The New Testament is not much better. In any event, I don't get the appeal people have with ancient words written by people who didn't know where the sun went at night. To each their own, I guess.
:-)
Dan, good question. I have wrestled with these contradictions myself. So, I live my Christian life with simple basics; like, right vs wrong, love vs. hate =basically child -like principles. Not intelligent but it works for me!! Hope this makes sense!
Cindy, it makes sense. That said, some Christian’s think we have “right” and “love” because of Christianity. Clearly, they’ve skipped a lot of the Bible and haven’t read their religious history.
The fact is we don’t know how we got here and we’ll most likely never know (I think science has the best chance of figuring it out) but Christianity is certainly not the source of morality and all things “good” in the world.
Very true, Dan. I think that's why we're all blessedly different and can come to our own beliefs through various experiences & knowledge!. I appreciate conversing with you!!
The Old Testament gives us God’s Justice and Punishment under His Law! Under God’s Law all sin must be punished. Since all of us sin, all will be punished. However, under the New Testament, Jesus came to take on our sin and become the sin offering in our place. This is the Good News, the Gospel of Jesus Christ! All we must do is accept that offering from God! Jesus is God! The Gospel of John and the Book of Romans explain all of this. The Old is passed away, behold the New has come!
All written over many years by people who didn't even know Jesus. Not to mention the writers had a fraction of the intellect and knowledge we have today.
Additionally, Christian's "God" is one of thousands of Gods created by man. Why is yours the right one? Do Muslims have it wrong? Do Hindu's have it wrong?
To each their own but it's ancient nonsense to me and a growing number of people.
Yes, it’s what we call inspiration (God Breathed) Into men that recorded His messages. I don’t have all the answers, it requires faith. Everyone has faith (trust) in many things. We trust the sun will rise tomorrow! Read the Bible with an open mind for understanding.
I have the Old and New Testament on my Kindle and read it at times but when it says that people who speak 'badly about God' (see below) should be put to death, it's hard to take seriously. Yes, I have "faith" but it's in scientifically minded people who have given mankind more benefits than all the religions put together.
Leviticus 24:16 "Whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death"
The Old Testament also shows us God’s plan for sending a Messiah (Jesus) to redeem his people (all people) to save them from God’s judgment for sin. So, the Old Testament shows us God’s Judgment and Punishment for sin, but also His plan for redemption for all who trust in Him, saved by faith. This is explained in the Book of Hebrews, New Testament.
I apologize for the typo. It should read Micah.
Beautifully clear and simple.
Thanks for bringing that up. Fellow Christian here.
Free will is everything. You cannot force someone to follow Jesus--futthermore, you shouldn't even think about it.
These people are way out there. This is not garden variety Christianity. It's fringe orthodoxy and probably heresy. We've got to make sure these zealots don't turn us into a Christian version of Saudi Arabia, because they're making it very plain that's their intent.
I like your definition of this ideology as heretical. Maybe that’s where our religious leaders should go to help us fight against Christian Nationalism
Oh, it's heresy all right. Of the worst kind.
What did Jesus have to say about people who led His followers astray?
Jesus called them false prophets and false teachers. He said they would increase as would people claiming to be “the Messiah” as Trump has done.
Right Kay G. When Trump said that he never felt the need to ask God’s forgiveness, my alarms went off.
I was alarmed in 2016 and worked hard in my small platform to tell people about what Trump would do to this country. I 10x more alarmed now. He completely failed on quick COVID19 response that caused avoidable economic turmoil and avoidable deaths, he abandoned our boots on the ground, The Kurds, who were the gatekeepers of ISIS, and he is more closely aligned with the dictators then our true allies, and all the while using Christ's name. It is the world's most dangerous cult and we have to beat it. Thank you, Adam for your fight to do the right thing. I wish there were more like you out there.
Well Said!
Really scary stuff! I’ve downloaded Project 2025 but haven’t started reading it yet, so hoping to learn more. I fear many trumpers are going to vote emotionally without understanding anything of substance about his intentions. The other worry is that it’s obvious that even if trump were to pass away, withdraw, or otherwise disappear it’s too late for America. The MAGA “deep state” is running things now.
Anne, I can do a very quick summary for you: It eliminates any constraints on public safety like the EPA in order to allow corporations to maximize profits and pollution and it brings major Departments like Justice under the President and his politically appointed demi-gods, thus eliminating the career civil service except the lowest level functionaries needed to carry out the Executive (Polituburo's) orders. If you decide to tackle the whole thing, I certainly don't want to discourage you, but suggest you have several vomit bags handy. :)
Ha. Thanks Bob. Strange times.
I completely agree, Adam. My own life has been a strange, somewhat circular journey. Baptized Roman Catholic, I left that church before high school graduation after nearly entering the priesthood. Being of a scholarly bent, I had read voraciously in theology and church history, and there was just too much I found wrong and inconsistent in that church to remain. Fundamentalist Protestantism was worse, so I abandoned religion altogether for a half century-plus of at times rather outspoken and sarcastic atheism.
Yet I kept reading, and searching. Surrounded by Jewish friends at UCLA and Harvard Law School, I nearly converted to Judaism then. I joined what was then an overwhelmingly Jewish law firm after graduation, where I spent my entire legal career. I did not convert, but remain strongly philo-Semitic and a supporter of Israel. I also delved deeply into Buddhism during my working years, drawn very strongly to its general ethos, absence of a God, and focus on personal responsibility in a suffering world. I felt compelled to explore other traditions as well, from reading the Bhagavad Gita and the Muhabarata to reading four different versions of the Quran and a number of works expanding on the hadeeths of Muhammad.
At age 70, I had a profound, inexplicable personal calling to the Greek Orthodox Church, the original Christian church and the one I believe to be the truest form of Christianity. That the call came unbidden, indeed unwanted, to an old white male of Southern ancestry on both sides with not a drop of Greek blood, made it all the more compelling. It has given my life purpose, meaning, explanation and joy.
But here’s the thing. Orthodoxy in this country emphasizes free will above all. It views coerced “faith” as an oxymoron. One hears God’s call or not, and accepts it or not. There is no conversion by the sword, unlike in Islam and the more virulent strains of Christianity, from conservatives Roman Catholicism to the Biblical literalists of Protestantism to the “Christian” nationalists you address. Christ would not recognize these people who sully His name, as I believe they will learn to their eternal sorrow on Judgment Day. Their teachings are diametrically opposed to the Gospel. Among the many things that have drawn me to Orthodoxy, prominent among them is our recognition that there is much we cannot know about God, a mystery and ambiguity we embrace. Here, we accept the separation of church and state, to the degree that our priests not only do not preach politics from our pulpits, but cannot even vote. We accept science (the current head of our church addressed the perils of climate change in his very first encyclical after taking office). We view sin as an illness, not a crime, and as something our priests cannot absolve in confession, contrary to Roman Catholicism, but can only offer as much forgiveness as God allows. In the end, we accept, and it is challenging but also hopeful, that we will be judged on the entirety of our lives, not one great sin or many, not one great act of charity or love, or many. We face life knowing every day is a test, challenging us to become more like Christ, our objective being something we call theosis, becoming as much like Him as possible. We certainly have things we define as sin, and sacraments very like those of Roman Catholicism. But we have no Pope, our doctrines coming via councils of bishops which are infrequent, relying overwhelmingly on the first seven Ecumenical Councils of Christianity. Importantly, as follows from the foregoing, we do not seek to force our views, beliefs or creed generally on anyone. We do not as a church support anti-abortion legislation, or oppose legislation guaranteeing the rights of LGBTQ+ people. Because the loving Christ in whom we believe is not of this world and has no secular agenda. His commands, and our faith, as our pastor recently told our Sunday school students when he addressed them during our Divine Liturgy, can be summed up in five words: love God and love people. That means all people, whatever their beliefs.
I write at length here because it matters so much for our country, the world, each of us. There is nothing Christian in “Christian” nationalism. There is nothing American in it either. It is a misbegotten grotesque species of fascism, intent on power and control by a minority, nothing more or less. It needs to be called out relentlessly for the hypocrisy it is,and for its agenda of bigotry, hatred and cruelty. It is perhaps the chief reason why a blue wave in November, at all levels, is vital for everyone, including the deluded cultists of tfg, who at root “know not what they do”.
Your voice is a powerful and necessary one, Adam. But the rest of us must echo you, to the extent of our capabilities and beyond, and especially in swing states because of the power and impact of the POTUS. We win in November, or we may never get the chance again at any ballot box. As the day approaches, and the drumbeats grow louder, I am more convinced of that than ever. We cannot lose, for ourselves, our families, our country, indeed the world. It truly is that stark.
Thank you for post Roy. I totally support what you have said about Jesus and the Kingdom of God. Only The Almighty knows the exact circumstance of a person’s life. Jesus spoke to the sinners, the poor, the homeless and healed the sick. Exactly the opposite of what MAGA proposes. Jesus protected women who were scorned and threatened with stoning. His “favorite” disciple was Mary. But men decided what went into the canonical Bible. Think about that and then Project 2025.
God Hates Liars.
What does Donald Trump do consistently? Lie
What have the MAGA Republicans been doing? Lying
What has FOX been doing?
Lying
It is Scripturally inconsistent that God would back a movement based on lies.
Christians are defined by our beliefs and those beliefs must be made manifest.
Jesus Christ said “you cannot follow ME you suffer like ME”
To those who more has been given more is expected
MAGA wants to multiply the burden on the poor to lighten the load on the rich.
That’s the philosophy of darkness.
MAGA and Project 2025 are heresy and must be defeated
How wise you are. I feel a little braver in the battle for having read them. Thank you for your insight.
That was elegantly written, and spot on.
This election terrifies me.
Excellent piece Roy Shults. Extremely well said.... well, actually written.
WOW! Not only did I learn about the Greek Orthodox Church, but I also found that the teachings it provides are much more in line with my own beliefs. Well written and thank you for the education!
Wow….thank you Roy…..I too was raised in the Catholic Church and even as a young kid disagreed with many teachings…I have been looking for a place to fit in all the rest of my life and oddly if I step into a Catholic Church it makes me cry….I found my spirituality in my church as a kid but I never felt it or found it there again….I’ve often wondered what the Greek Orthodox Church would be like …if they would hold the key to my spiritual self….at 72 I’m still looking.
These Christian Nationalists definitely made me sit up and take notice because I felt all the fear, anger and hatred just flowing off of them….their embrace of the Old Testament said it all….where God smithed anyone who disobeyed or disagreed with the teachings of that time period….that’s what they want for all of us because they want CONTROL over everything we do or say ….who in that current group would any of us want to emulate, to follow, to bow too?
Many of those CN’s are also Q Anon and believed Donald was “Q” for God’s sake and they still follow “him” not even knowing who or what Q is!
These are not people any of us should be following….except for keeping close tabs on them so we can round them up later and open up psych wards …. just for them.
Thank you, Adam. I remain very alarmed.
"I remain devoted to the Christian faith, but I believe our Constitution, as written, must be the law of the land. If you agree, you should be alarmed."
You aren't alone in being "alarmed", Adam. I know many that think like we do, but are literally afraid to speak out for fear of being thrown out of their church. That is not Christianity, it is the culture of a deranged cult. Sad in so many ways...
Wonder how many souls have been lost since fundamentalists sold out Christianity? Guess the Great Commission is absolutely meaningless to most now, politics has replaced it. Waiting for them to demand removing the "tired and poor" plaque from the Statue of Liberty...
Barry Goldwater was able to foresee this way before our time. Wishing the GOP had listened....
"Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed." ...from 1964 GOP Convection (San Francisco) Acceptance Speech
“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
Goldwater was Spot On!! The GOP imploded for being too ignorant and arrogant to heed this ominous warning...
I was only in the 5th grade but you are correct... Goldwater was Spot On! A history lesson that needs to be published far and wide!
I am not afraid of being tossed from the church (maybe I should be) but I am very afraid to bring it up amongst some family members for fear of causing irreconcilable differences. It breaks my heart but I believe I am seeing the facts for what they are. I’m not one to always want to be right. I can and have admitted wrong. To echo another’s comment; our religious leaders need to speak up about all of this.
"To echo another’s comment; our religious leaders need to speak up about all of this."
Amen to that Theresa! If pastors were to at least to tell their flocks to think instead of blindly follow "any" politician, church attendance would rise and tensions within the churches would dissipate.
I know a preacher that retired early over this Also,. have a cousin who is a pastor in a red state having major issues with politics within his church. One of my relatives told him she was praying for him and he broke down for a minute. Maybe the members need to vector the leaders back on course since they don't seem to feel the have the backing of the congregations...
Looks like evil can flourish in religion when good people refuse to address certain issues. Silence isn't golden here at sll...
What's the quality of their Christian faith? I don't think lying is a valuable Christian quality. How about a faith that doesn't condone lying, and hording power? An American Christian Taliban won't work for me, and I would feel really bad for the children.
There is no quality in their faith. They have sided with evil to get their desires. In essence a friend of the devil is a friend of theirs. I'm not a christian and never will be as their hypocrisy has been a constant in my 64 years on Earth. The only rule we need to live by is, as my Gramma always said, "The Golden Rule". I subscribe to that one ideal and do my dambest to follow it, maybe not always successful, but it is paramount I do so. I believe it would cure the world of many problems. I have no problem with people believing as they see fit. I do have issues with pushing it on to others.
as an aside......
Appx. 5 million children under 5 died on Earth in 2022. What God wants God gets.
My turn as a hypocrite. If I offend anyone, think it over.
The priest said, "God wants goodness, God wants light
God wants mayhem, God wants a clean fight"
What God wants, God gets
God wants sedition, God wants sex
God wants freedom, God wants semtex
What God wants, God gets
God wants voodoo, God wants shrines
God wants law, God wants organized crime
God wants crusade, God wants jihad
God wants good, God wants bad
********************
God wants gigolos
God wants giraffes
God wants politics
God wants a good laugh
What God wants, God gets, God help us all
Excerpt of What God Wants Parts 1 & 2 - Roger Waters
As someone who is not Christian, Mr. Vought's views are terrifying.
As someone who is simply rational I’m with you in this.
Let's make sure we do something about it and get out the vote for democracy and support for the Constitution. I don't want to be left with regrets.
So I guess they just want to ignore what the First Amendment clearly states regarding a "national religion". That is, indeed, very troubling.
I'm so glad I'm 70 years old. If these people come to power, I won't have to live in this country too much longer. I just don't know where to move for my last years!
Although, at 71 and in good health, I plan to live to be 100 or more (God Willing) so I am heavily invested in defeating Trump and MAGA at the ballot box! I'd like to enjoy the next 30 years 😜.
I’m even more glad ;I’m 87!
But I still have Faith!
John, I so agree. I feel I have lived too long. This potential for my Country being converted to a Dictatorship, is unthinkable. Am exploring where I might relocate, for my end years, if we loose Democracy.
Oh Canada, please stand on guard for me. I feel the same.
I feel the same but fear for my children and grandchildren
Most countries of this world where you might want to live have extradition treaties with the United States. If Trump wins and you are wealthy enough, you might want to live outside the U.S. If Trump’s retribution seeks to find and punish you/your loved ones, where will you go and what will you do? To avoid harm and to protect your life and ability to provide ongoing food and shelter?💙🇺🇸
I hear you. We’ll see what happens if Trump gets in. Let’s hope this won’t happen although knowing the way Trump thinks he is doing whatever he can now to make sure this happens. It does have me worried!!
John, when you find out please let me know!! I've been thinking the same as you! First I'm praying Adam and his family "gets out of Dodge" and we can follow them to a land of sanity! I still have Faith but I believe in a back-up plan!
Very alarmed! Speaking as a Christian who wishes to keep church and state separate; I believe the “Christian right” are operating from fear. Fear of being outnumbered, fear of an inclusive country. I want government out of our bodies. I suppose I shouldn’t be but I continue to be shocked that this looming possibility is a real threat. A democracy to me is something that can evolve and improve over time and considers all its citizens. Invasion of the body snatchers comes to mind when I think of the growing number of folks following Mr. Trump and his cronies. I will continue to pray for all to have the realization democracy is at steak and that I can muster the courage to speak out without becoming physically sick and losing my shit over it all. I admit I have trouble with the latter. Keep the faith one and all.